Nikon cuts forecast. And TheCameraStoreTV calls for a FM mirrorless.

Nikon latest financial report (see here) describes a negative scenario for Nikon. Sales are dropping down and forecast is even worse than expected.
 

The team form TheCameraStoreTV discussed about the Nikon and Canon very conservative approach regarding the mirrorless market. They suggest Nikon to launch a Full Frame mirrorless system based on the amazing FM design. I couldn’t agree more on that!

Nikon (and Canon) really have to stop thinking in such a conservative way. They have to “risk” if they do not want to be overcome by Sony, Fuji and other companies.

  • Petrolbokehlicious

    My current cameras are a Nikon D5200 with a barrage of lenses both new and old (legacy lenses from back when I shot film) and a Canon EOS M with its two USA available lenses. I love the image quality I get from my Nikon’s team of cutting edge sensor, processor and firmware technology that bring almost true to the eye color depth and dynamic range, noiseless video, perfect exposure and accurate and fast AF performance, but I am carrying the Canon with me most of the time just because of its portability, having to put up with its 5 years old tech which outputs colors that are skewed to warm to obviously compensate for its lack of dynamic range, terribly noisy video that prevents me from taking any under any type of artificial illumination, and although its exposure is pretty much even with Nikon’s, its AF is a joke, being even worse than Nikon’s AF performance in LV. Both optical giants are lagging for no good reason other than their total lack of interest for what the consumer demands: Nikon should stop loosing time and money with their useless 1 system and take all that tech (what’s the world’s fastest cameras good for if their IQ suck?) to make an APS-C and FF line of mirrorless ILCs, not to compete with silly Sony or funky Fuji but to regain its REIGN of all of cameradom, and Canon MUST ditch their antiquated sensor fab so they can start making MODERN sensors, that sensor fab has long outlived its usable life: my EOS M’s sensor even came with a burned pixel, something I’ve never ever seen before, and this is the 16th digital camera I’ve bought. Move forward Nikon and Canon or face impending DOOM.

  • JD

    I’m fairly new to this hobby. I started out with a Nikon D70 I got for $25 and wound up getting an EOS 10D and a Rebel T3i and a bunch of Sony mirrorless (mainly a NEX-6 for me, a NEX-5 for a friend and i just got an a7) and honestly, I think for the forseeable future, i’m sticking with Sony mirrorless.

    I have to say, Nikon and Canon seem to be treating mirrorless as a joke and really, mirrorless is the future IMO. With Nikon…It’s great that you can get a brand-new SLR-style camera kit for $200, but they have nothing that’s worth any more than maybe $500. Same with Nikon. The only useful thing that these cameras have is that they have adapters to use F-mount and EF-mount lenses with full autofocus and stuff.

    To be fair though, I also have a problem with Micro 4/3rds Mirrorless because the sensor is significantly smaller than APS-C yet bodies (like the GH4) are going for >$1500…Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

  • Didier GM

    I am an old NIkon addict -Film first then digital started with the D70 then went D1x, D2x, D2Hs ( all second hand ) then I met the Nikon 1 V1 – and as appalled by the 1″ sensor Nikon did put together. The I met the Fuji S5 pro and discovered that Dynamic range could be vastly superior to what I had w/o breaking the bank. Then discovered the fuji xe-1 and was reminded how photography can be a pleasurable experience w/o breaking my back. Now I am fuji X all the way – My nikon being in search for a new home.
    So what does Nikon & Canon do ? IMHO: go back to the roots when photography was a hobby & a pleasure, when you did not have to fight the electronics to get what you wanted. And, Mr Nikon, please stop treating your clients as just cash cows and get inspiration from Fuji in the customer relationship department.
    As for me it is too late, I am now immensely enjoying Fuji xTrans sensor and really fine glass and have found again the simple pleasure to walk around and grab images of what I see around me knowing I’ll get great results and hardly any pain.

    • Linda Stirling

      Fuji regardless of the pros and cons of their system is a tiny player in mirrorless lagging far far behind the likes of Panasonic, Sony, Olympus and I imagine Nikon and Canon

      • John Wilson

        Comon Linda. You can do better than that. That’s a self defeating argument! If a minnow like Fuji can hatch and market something like the X system that have pros singing it’s praise and amateurs lining up to buy them, I’ll leave you to come up with the corollary to that fact …..

        • Linda Stirling

          The Fuji X system is very good that has nothing to do with my statement in fact I personally think it is a great system and but for its relatively poor video I would probably be a Fuji owner by now.
          . A handful of pros may well be singing their praises but their tiny market share clearly shows that the line of amateurs buying them is much shorter than you may be imagining. All available data suggests that Fuji ‘s market share is very small , with DSLR’s still hugely dominating interchangeable lens camera market 75-80% over the last year you are left with 20-25% for all mirrorless brands.

          mFT {Olympus and Panasonic } & Sony NEX makes up the lions share of the mirrorless market maybe as much as 70% of the 20-25% mirrorless market between them. This leaves aprox 14% of the interchangeable market unaccounted for in this you have Nikon, Canon, Fuji ,Pentax, and Samsung. I would honestly expect Fuji’s market share to be Fuji are in all likelihood in a 2-3% market share position

  • John Wilson

    CaNikon are seriously courting the prospect of becoming the worlds largest “buggy whip” makers. They seem determined to protect their massive shares of a steadily shrinking market at all costs. Ive been a Canon user since 1988 with a case full of Canon gear and lenses. I’m in the process of dumping it all and going mirrorless, which will push me out of the Canon camp since they have nothing for me to even look at!!! The pro products may be their marketing “halo” but they’ve forgotten that its us amateurs/enthusiasts who pay the bills. The clear trend in the enthusiast market is toward mirrorless but the stance of CaNikon seems to be “If you’re serious about mirrorless we don’t want your business”. The Nikon V3 is an exception … a great idea badly marketed, a seriously flawed camera in many respects and seriously overpriced … still I’m seriously considering one as a “street” camera because even with it’s downsides its a really good little camera with great “legs”.

    IMHO … what the market desperately needs is a REAL back to basics camera … you know, focus, aperture and shutter speed … without all the techie crapp (oops, sorry – features). A cracking good APS 24MP sensor, cracking good focus (al la – Nikon V/70D), a good metering system, a cracking good viewfinder and LCD, fast frame rate (10+) and about 8 killer lenses (3 zooms and 5 primes). You’ll still need a couple of buttons like white balance, frame rate, exposure comp and bracketing …. BUT THAT”S IT!!! Oh Yes, and a DECENT PRICE. Fuji pointed the way so we know it can be done. I’d buy one in a heartbeat and they would probably sell by the shipload.

    • Linda Stirling

      John, though your points are valid the fact remains that mirrorless as a money making venture has been downright unsuccessful, all the imaging divisions of the major mirrorless players have made constant losses some huge. Nikon and Canon may well be staid but despite Nikon’s statement it is none the less a reduction in profit not an announcement of a huge loss, the likes of Olympus imaging division if it was a separate company whose losses are not absorbed by a profitable medical sector would have folded years ago.

      • John Wilson

        Linda – what you say is true, but not the whole story. CaNikon still have the lion’s share of the DSLR market … BUT! The DSLR market has been in decline for some time. So they still have the lion’s share of a smaller pie. Yes, the 4/3 camera makers are still in the red on cameras, but keep in mind that Panasonic started into the market from basically 0 and have steadily built a name for themself. Olympus was a little further ahead but not by much given their market share and 4/3 was a whole new paradigm. Mirrorless sales are slowly rising,while DSLR sales are slowly sinking. If that trend continues, and there’s no sign of it changing short of some serious rethinking by CaNikon, mirrorless will reach a tipping point where it will begin to seriously eat at CaNikon. Nikon is in a potentially difficult position because cameras is all they make. Canon is vertically and horizontally integrated with lots of other products in their portfolio.

        And then there’s the 800 pound gorilla everyone tends to forget about – SONY! They are the innovators extant in the current DSLR universe with lots of resources to throw at capturing a bigger share of the market. If they ever get their focus sufficiently fine tuned to come up with a consistent and focused marketing plan ….

        Having spent 50 years in both the private and public sectors, there’s something I noticed about big, monolithic organizations … it often takes a catastrophe or at least a disaster of significant magnitude for them to change. Sometimes it happens too late.

        • Linda Stirling

          John, alas pretty much all camera markets are in decline regards volume, the DSLR market has accounted for between 75-80% of all interchangeable cameras sold. Despite the hype the fact is that Olympus share of the overall interchangeable lens camera market { DSLR+ mirrorless} is lower than at its FT peak. And critically Canon and Nikon are the only camera companies making a profit. I agree that Nikon especially need to think long and hard about their future direction as they are fundamentally a true camera company with cameras and lenses accounting for a huge chick of their business where Olympus , Sony , Canon all have major business interests in other areas.

  • Peter Drijver

    I was a huge fan of my Contax film cameras and Zeiss lenses. First digital camera was CanonG2 and after the Canon EFS 10-22 came out I bought myself into a Canon system. Last year ditched it for Fuji XE-2, two excellent prime and a nice tele-zoom. Canon DSLR’s are bulky ‘point ‘n shooters at least my 300/550 where. Fuji cameras seem to be more like my old school Contaxes, Werra and Exaktas. Aperture, distance and shutter speed –no more no less. The Fuji-people seem to understand that and in their PR ‘photography’ shines: why carry your gear in the first place. And, o yes, Fuji’s IQ is slightly better than my Canon gear. Canon and Nikon have a long tradition since the early sixties when they reinvented themselves as better, more flexible and more innovative camera industry and they smashed 10.000s of jobs in the german camera industry. Will they be able to do it again?

  • Loren

    Seems to me that even if Canon and Nikon are stuck with their form factor and flange distance in order to not render obsolete all of the lenses people have been buying for decades, that doesn’t mean they can’t have a major overhaul of the insides and make a mirrorless version. While it’s true that size is the advantage to most current mirrorless bodies, it’s not the defining criteria for everybody, there are other advantages to mirrorless, and the more “pro” mirrorless goes the smaller that size advantage gets. Rather than push the small-size strategy, stay big and use the extra space to pack in more innovations, and keep the existing lenses to boot. Offer something new that pushes the envelope for both mirrorless and DSLRs. If they can’t, sayonara.

  • J Shin

    What great thoughts from everyone! I have nothing to add but an appreciation.

  • John Jagnow

    I just had to comment about the person who called FUJI a little minnow – Fuji is a very large company bigger that Canon or Nikon

  • Alex Miller

    I have been shooting photos for over 50 years having started at age 12 with a Petri 35mm rangefinder, then a Mamiyaflex TLR (which I still have), then a Pentax SV followed by a Pentax Spotmatic ES. I switched from Pentax to Minolta when the 9000 came out with autofocus and shot with that until I switched to Canon starting with a Digital Rebel as a trial and then a 20D, then a 5D and finally a 5D Mark II. During the Minolta era I shot my semi-pro work with a Hasselblad system rented on weekends and for jobs as needed, then switched to a Mamiya RZ67 system, also rented when needed. I also got a Pentax 67 system for landscape work in the field. The Canon 5D Mark II totally replaced all my medium format gear and is in fact superior for architectural work with the 17 and 24 TS-E tilt shift lenses. My only complaint about Canon is the size and weight for field work (lighter than 67 though) the lack of a really good 50/55mm prime lens. The ergonomics are terrific and the system is very comprehensive. I tested a Leica M9 / MP system for a few weeks after I inherited four Leica lenses and an M3 but decided that the better lenses were not worth abandoning autofocus and zoom lenses when their use is appropriate. However, I did buy a Sony NEX7 with an adaptor for the Leica lenses and started using it for travel. After a while, I bought the Zeiss 16-70 and 10-18 for the NEX and stopped taking the Leica lenses with me. When the A7R came out I bought one with the Zeiss 55 and 35 and started using it for landscapes, especially when hiking. The image quality is superb and the Zeiss lenses are a full match and more for the Leica lenses. I recently bought the Zeiss 24-70 and found it disappointing. Also the ergonomics are not very good and using a EVF in bright sun is terrible compared to the OVF on the Canon. It also has terrible lag in low light. However, once you’ve shot with an EVF it’s hard to go back to an OVF except in bright sun

    With that long preamble, here’s what I think Canon should do. Copy what Sony has done with the NEX7 (now A6000) and A7R and the LA A-mount to E-mount adaptors. Canon already has a mirrorless mount and simple system but catch up with Sony but with proper Canon ergonomics, EVF, fast autofocus and pro quality. Get a competitive sensor to Sony or, better still, leapfrog them (which we’re hearing may happen at Photokina). Make a few key lenses specifically for mirrorless as Sony has done focusing on small size and high image quality. Get the autofocus as fast at the A6000 or better. I have the Metabones adaptor to allow use of my Canon lenses on the Sony A7R and it works OK but autofocus is slow. Canon can easily engineer very fast autofocus for their EF lenses on the new mirrorless mount as Sony did with the LA adaptors. If Canon did this, I would dump my Sony gear in a heartbeat and go back to all Canon.

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