Getting closer to the Canon event: APS-C mirrorless with new mount!
This time trusted sources unveiled that Canon will actually launch a mirrorless system with APS-C sensor and not with the same Four Thirds sized GX1 sensor! There will be a completely new mount and of course your EF lenses will be compatible (with electronic support) via appropriate adapter. I guess more info and real specs will be leaked the next days…
via CanonWatch.
Arnold
11 months ago |That’s very interesting news !
444444444
11 months ago |yep.. thank god no small m43 sensor.
i have a mobile phone if i want a small sensor camera….
Steve
11 months ago |So that would mean the Hybrid sensor from the 650D/T4I. That would make a lot of sense.
ljmac
11 months ago |Well that’s that then – as Canon themselves have stated, the 1.5″/4/3rds sensor size is the ideal compromise between sensor area and lens size. If their mirrorless cameras are APS-C, they will have exactly the same problems as Sony and Samsung – excessively large lenses. I think Micro 4/3rds has the mirrorless market in the bag.
Mikey
11 months ago |Let’s not forget that selling cameras is half about marketing. Consumers recognize the Canon name and they will buy it solely on that alone.
I see so many people buy dslrs only to leave them at home because they are big and heavy that I keep wondering why Olympus and Panasonic can’t get more market share in the USA. These small mirrorless cameras would be just about perfect for these folks.
Hopefully Canon creates something that stands out as unique in the market. Micro four thirds is small, X-Pro1 is retro with a hybrid viewfinder, Nex has a state of the art body, Samsung just has decent lenses, and Nikon has a CDAF/PDAF sensor and a camera that is also small.
Will Canon do more than just use it’s name?
noR
11 months ago |Canon recently announced/released the 40mm pancake, haven’t they? All makes sense now.
Steve
11 months ago |That pancake would only apply to the larger register on their DSLRs. On a mirrorless they would either need an adaptor or develop a new larger lens. Either way it is no longer a pancake.
Booe
11 months ago |Duh, on mirrorless camera you will have 35/1.8 or 30/2 instead of slow and narrow 40/2.8 — much better! Not to mention it would be better optically too.
Dummy00001
11 months ago |Well, the “new mount” still doesn’t make sense.
Mr.Tritium
11 months ago |They could make the 40mm pancake because the EF mount has a huge 44mm flange to focal plane distance.
It will probably be much harder with the new Canon mount, which will have a ~20mm flange.
Sergio
11 months ago |Not in the bag for everyone. Given a choice of a mirrorless in 4/3 or one in APS-C or FF, I’ll take the larger (which is still a small camera) sensor. Selective focus without telephoto or being in macro shooting mode is some much better.
Esa Tuunanen
11 months ago |> I think Micro 4/3rds has the mirrorless market in the bag.
Only thing is that bag is just too small for ergonomics which is one reason why mirrorless has failed to eat sales of DSLRs in Europe and North America.
I don’t believe Canon to think they can slap lens mount to Powershot S and then claim it as advanced DSLR replacement of the future!
Kevin
11 months ago |the m43 systems are small, but still not pocket-able
if i need to carry a bag anyway, a m43 or sony/samsung mirrorless won’t make much of a difference — which is why i think the canon S100 and the soon-to-be-released sony RX100 is still the king of “mirrorless” cameras.
Esa Tuunanen
11 months ago |Indeed fixed lens compacts are only cameras with real solid claim to compact easy carrying ability by allowing integration of lens into body.
M4/3 can never offer slimness of those so especially with rise of bigger sensor compacts m4/3 is just going to drive itself into niche of neither pocketable nor ergonomical cameras hard pressed from both sides if it doesn’t offer more complete system.
Internally compatible complete system with small bodies/lenses for beginners/those needing portability over controls&ergonomics and full ergonomics bodies with high quality optics for those needing serious tools would be in lot stronger position to withstand competition in long term.
APS-C sensor’s capabilities are well enough for most DSLR users and 4/3 sensor’s inability to compete well against it was caused only by first Kodak and then Panasonic sensors lagging behind which is now finally solved with Sony made modern tech sensor in E-M5.
Any way because of big mechanical complexity of mirror chamber Canon and Nikon are definitely going to eventually replace most of their DSLRs with mirrorless bodies so it would only make sense for m4/3 to try to keep their headstart into fully digital mirrorless future.
Ben Y
11 months ago |Fully digital mirrorless future? Believe it or not, a substantial number of us still prefer TTL optical finders – gasp!
viking79
11 months ago |“4/3 has mirrorless in the bag”…
You seem to think that is the only market for mirrorless, small and compact. I think what you will see is the entire market will shift to mirrorless with the exception of a few pro and semi-pro models.
So I think you will see a wide range of mirrorless models.
Eric
Napilopez
11 months ago |While I do think that M4/3 is the most “ideal” mirrorless system regarding size/performance ratio, I’d hardly say M4/3 has it in the bag.
As an M4/3 user, I’m very glad the OM-D has been making such waves because otherwise I’d doubt the chances the system would have against the likes of a properly designed mirrorless system from canon. It’s biggest competition comes from NEX, and Sony doesn’t even have the know-how or any where near the camera-marketing power canon does.
What I’m curious is how Canon will approach this issue. Are they going to worry about their APS-C DSLR market weakening because of their own mirrorless system, and thus market that system differently to try to avoid this? Or are they going to present their mirrorless system as something just as good as their DSLRs in a smaller package?
If they go for the latter, we can expect some major changes in the mirrorless field.
My guess is that there’s a strong chance they’re going to take this second approach, given the hybrid sensor in the T4i, which I was not at all expecting, and the fact that they seem to be going with APS-C rather than the G1X sensor size. Once you can get people to not care about optical viewfinders(which really, only seasoned users care about), then there is virtually nothing holding back a canon mirrorless system compared to a DSLR in performance. In fact, it would gain several advantages, such as PDAF during video(a la T4i), a smaller body and slightly smaller lenses, a quieter shutter with faster bursts, better low light focus performance, faster overall focus.
If I were canon, I would include the EF-mount adapter with the camera. That would basically ensure huge sales from the get-go.
I hope Olympus and Panasonic can retaliate.
32432432
11 months ago |your telling bullshit…
mirrorless is not all about size.
i would NEVER buy a m43 camera because of the small sensor.
quality is maybe good enough for casual shooters but not for me.
give me a ff mirrorless for 2000$ and i buy it in a second
ljmac
11 months ago |I didn’t say what YOU would buy – as far as the general market is concerned, mirrorless IS very much about size and weight. Otherwise, why not just stick with a DSLR?
viking79
11 months ago |Better yet, if a mirrorless camera can come close to meeting a DSLR in terms of focus performance, why stick with SLR? Mirrorless cameras from a production standpoint are nice, they drop an expensive mirror and optical prism and have benefits like focus is always accurate.
Eric
nofanaticsplz
11 months ago |Just can’t understand why all M4/3 fan boys are keep complaining APS-C mirrorless cameras have large lenses. Guessing most of them never walk out of their precious M4/3 system fences. Except to the pana’s 20.7 and 14/2.5, oly’s 17/2.8, and pane x 14-42; others are BIG like APS-C’s BIG lenses. Of course sony lacks pancake lenses but samsung produces good pancake lenses.(both have roadmap for more pancake lenses.) Also, you fan boys talk M4/3 has advantage in smaller sensors, HOWEVER they are BIG body size relative to APS-C cameras. (even few APS-C cameras have smaller body than M4/3s.)
If you just saw lens mounted body pictures on the internet and think those lenses are too big for body, you got it wrong.
1. Those cameras are sometimes smaller than your M4/3s.
2. APS-C has pancakes too.
3. YOU AND I BOTH STILL CANNOT PUT OUR CAMERAS IN POCKET.
4. OM-D is not end-of-talk uber camera. Actually there’s no such. It is a good camera BUT you guys are acting like manipulating stock prices.
I agree M4/3s have super fast AF, therefore YOU WIN.
Matt
11 months ago |Samsung are soon to have 4 pancake lenses that are pretty darn small. The lens of the X100 is pretty tiny too (though not interchangeable).
Vaclav
11 months ago |What about sensor with micro lenses? Wide lenses wouldn’t need to have a retrofocus design and they could be much smaller (from what I’ve read NEX wide lenses are all retrofocus).
Steve
11 months ago |That might work for wide lenses, but would have the opposite effect on longer lenses. You cannot design a sensor for a specific lens on a Interchangeable lens system.
Booe
11 months ago |it would work fine if longer focal lenses would use telephoto design
Esa Tuunanen
11 months ago |Micro lenses aren’t there to take any part in forming picture onto image plane/sensor but to make sure that as much of light as possible hits the actual light sensitive element inside pixel instead of being also spread to wiring and pixel level circuitry and hence going to waste.
And read this before trying to design optical part of camera system.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/09/lens-genealogy-part-2
Vlad
11 months ago |Which would result in the ability to make what Vaclav said. What is your point?
Ivar
11 months ago |Canon is behind in dynamic range in the marketplace (Sony, Nikon, Fuji etc), so they are probably after high ISO. I wonder what are the selling points, knowing that Canon doesn’t like to put in features too easily. While EF-lens compatibility sounds nice, the camera is bought because of the size in the first place meaning also smaller lenses must be there.
Mr Hipsta
11 months ago |This is so exciting and I wonder what Canon will come up with. I think they will try something different from M43 – that sweet spot in the middle is already taken. Nikon did something smaller (Nikon 1) so it makes sense (!?) that Canon will go a bit larger with their new system. APS-C would be nice in my opinion. A decent viewfinder is a must, but will it be optical/hybrid like the Fuji X-Pro or an EVF?
Canon, please give us some leaks!
Mando
11 months ago |about time! I have a good collection of canon lens that would love an mirror-less body!
MrGuyFawkes
11 months ago |looks like Canon’s going to pull a Pantex a la k-01….now if they could only make a pancake like Pantex it could be interesting:)
Ash
11 months ago |If it doesn’t have a GX1-sized sensor then what does it have?
If it has an APS-C sensor then why does it need a new lens mount?
Slapping a 2.8 pancake lens on the camera isn’t going to make an APS-C camera ‘compact’. If it isn’t compact and is sized to work with standard EF lenses then what advantage will it have over a T4i?
To have a significant size advantage over smaller DSLRs the system will need smaller lenses. Physics dictates that smaller lenses of a comparable speed require a smaller sensor. Removing the mirror box helps a bit but cannot completely change the form factor. The success of the m4/3 system is due largely to the smaller lenses in my opinion.
Is this really an alternative to Canon dslrs or is it a strange stop-gap camera designed to enter the ‘mirrorless market’ and appeal to reto-styling afficionados?
Mysteries abound, and it seems that the “sources” are supplying conflicting information at this point. Perhaps ‘new lens line’ is more accurate than ‘new lens mount’? Maybe the cameras will have an EF mount but the newly released lenses will be designed so that they cannot be used on Canon’s DSLRs? They have pulled this trick before with the EF-s lenses. Maybe the new mount will be called EF-x, hahaha.
Ash
11 months ago |Further prediction:
They will kep size down on the new lenses by using fly-by-wire manual focus, just like the Fuji XF lenses.
The new cameras will not have native EF support, they will have an autofocus adapter available for people to use with their existing EF lenses.
aleckurgan
11 months ago |Autofocus adapter will push away most of Canon’s devotees, who would like to use their EF lenses with this new body. We already have one monstrous solution example from Sony NEX.
Ash
11 months ago |The cameras will not have native EF support due to the flange distance as Mr Tritium and Mr Hipsta have pointed out.
I think the logical solution is an auto-focus EF to new mount adapter, and yes it will probably be chunky.
Booe
11 months ago |>Removing the mirror box helps a bit but cannot completely change the form factor.
Bullshit. It helps a lot. Compare Canon G1X with any of 4/3rd DSLRs – which have smaller sensor than G1X. Compare Samsung’s 30/2 and any of DSLR’s 35/1.8
The problem is that many firms don’t have much expertise in designing lenses, which won’t be a problem for Canon.
Mr Hipsta
11 months ago |“If it has an APS-C sensor then why does it need a new lens mount?” /Ash
Mr.Tritium already answered that question above – EF lenses have a flange focal distance of 44 mm and in a new system this could be a lot shorter since there is no mirror. M43 use 20 mm and Sony Nex 17 mm.
rrr_hhh
11 months ago |I think that they are not going after the mft users with such a camera with an APSC sensor, but rather after the likes of the Sony SLT cameras : slightly smaller and lighter cameras, with EVF and without mirror, but DSLRS performances. They aren’t going after a miniaturized camera.
Ash
11 months ago |I think you’re right they are aiming to compete with Sony NEX and Fuji X rather than m4/3.
Miroslav
11 months ago |Good news, since their existing APS-C lenses will be fully usable on new mirrorless bodies.
mojojones
11 months ago |Lens size for APC should be an on-issue. One need only look at Leica M, or better yet Contax G which put autofocus in an extremely compact lens form. I would only hope we see a rangefinder style camera with APC sensor and a well designed hybrid finder (optical still kicks butt). Think Canon P or 7.